The mother of Columbine killer Dylan Klebold says she thinks every day about the people her . crap, that is what I think of. That's why I have so much contempt for the Harris and Klebold families. Dylan (Klebold) did not do this because of the way he was raised, Susan Klebold told columnist David Brooks in Saturdays editions of The New York Times. Ed Berg, a former business associate who has talked to Tom Klebold since the shootings, said Dylan's father has come to grips with the boy's crime. When he heard reports of gunmen in trench coats rampaging through Columbine High, it's reported, that Thomas Klebold (the father of Dylan) contacted authorities, because he suspected his son might be involved and offered his help as a negotiator.. Or is your tiny mind only capable of two viewpoints? What can I say, the mention of Dave Cullen's book piqued my curiosity. From many angles, Dylan was the average kid any parent would want. It would be comforting to think otherwise. Based on what I've read so far, he's working off the assumption that Klebold was a depressive with self-destructive tendencies (he mentions suicide over and over in the journal kept for two years prior to the incident), and that Harris was a full-blown psychopath. (Stephanie . in CJ 725, Tagged: columbine, mass murderer, mental illness, school shootings. . By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. I worked as a dishwasher, then busboy then waiter in a German-American restaurant years ago when I was growing up. I'm sure they still live in Columbine and are active in many community functions, especially the PTA. Very few people really care. Their teenage son, along with his classmate Dylan Klebold, killed 12 students and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, on April 20, 1999. Brown can . . We relate. She just took interest and responsibility for what I did as long as I was both underage and under her roof. At approximately 11:19 a.m., Dylan Klebold, 17, and Eric . I can't find any photos of Eric's older brother, Kevin. They then killed themselves in the school library. Ericx92s parents, too, did what parents do. Attention was paid. When I was in high school, i was friends with a guy who very well could have done what those kids did. 1/12 Tom is home from the hospital. But they confess that in the main, they have no explanation. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold was the deadliest high school shooting in U.S. history, . We just share a brotherhood of admiration and belief in R &V. We sympathize with each other. His mom was trying to find the best fit for him, but I suspect it ended up being more difficult for him), and both enjoyed violent video games. Introduction: My name is Golda Nolan II, I am a thoughtful, clever, cute, jolly, brave, powerful, splendid person who loves writing and wants to share my knowledge and understanding with you. Stop doing that." Nothing taken care of that I needed him to do (like take care of the cats). Ignore them. The two would . Hi Alison, One young doctor said, "I don't know if you can teach compassion, but you surely can teach the opposite! Apparently his meds caused an issue with a military enlistment, but wouldn't a caring parent sit down with their kid and figure out a Plan B? You're an idiot. ", Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". I think that even I have sustained some slight rewiring from that, though not anywhere *near* to the extent of my brother's. We are not violent.I would never do a shooting even though I work in an office with a bunch of former jocks and homecoming queens that haven't changed since they left school and are still as awful now as they were then. Haven't most of you been able to conceal your homosexuality from your family for a number of years? "However, there is credible, tangible, measurable, and repeatable evidence that there are some people, for whatever reason, have their brains wired differently.". LITTLETON, Colo. (AP) _ Columbine High School gunman Dylan Klebold was a follower, not a leader, who went astray after he met Eric Harris, friends say. A lot of psychiatry is and has always been about cheap quick labels, rather than an honest analysis of the society in which individuals live. In their first interview since the Columbine High School massacre, the parents of one of the killers said they feel no need be forgiven and didnt realize their son was beyond hope until after he was dead. While I was able to share the manner by which she communicated her ideas and insights, I wasnt able to actually share those insights and ideas. Sue Klebold, mother of Columbine shooter Dylan Klebold, poses for a portrait on Feb. 23, 2016. This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain. Eric . When in a store and two or three siblings are fighting and shouting and behaving badly, how does that parent not see it? It is actually a lot of conformist bunk to serve the status quo. Dylan has been so reclusive. Jefferson County Public Schools officials have consistently denied that bullying was tolerated or that athletes received special treatment. "This is my (completely layman's) opinion, but I've always figured that we have more or less tamped down the "How" of the brain, but we're still working on the "Why" of the brain.". The recruiter cold-called him. See? For not seeing that, I will never forgive myself.. His parents raised their two boys as many others did, following that close-knit, suburban family model (p. 62). But they sure jumped at the chance to be on Oprah! Let's set aside the pipe bomb issue and Eric's scrapes with the law for a moment and ask why they weren't more involved with their kid. 5. The narrator seemed to revel in the graphic violence he was depicting, but it was the final passage that was particularly disturbing, where Dylan conveyed unabashed awe and . Dylan Klebold's mother: 'I felt I was a good mom'. After college, the couple married and settled in the Denver area. These incidents happen because the majority of people choose to look the other way if a kid seems a little off. Yet, despite a happy upbringing, Dylan still did what he did. I don't think the parents are to blame and never had, but it's a lot easier hating these two kids and their parents then hating the society that produced them. I think those that readily (and outrightly) blame the parents are inclined to do so as to perpetuate some aspect of control, otherwise the shear nature of the case becomes too frightening. Bull fucking shit. In the vacuum of actual news, they just start over again. The term "psychopath" was in academic use by the early 1910s, and the definitive work on psychopathy was published in 1941. But you also can't argue with success. I cannot have my uzzer patrons being upset. No scientist knows this absolutely. I wanted an apology. I'm sure they have given depositions but I don't think those were ever made public. He was afraid Dylan might be involved. Yaron Steinbuch. "some manipulate, like my parents.". : apparently tom was really hurt when 4/20 happened and grieved heavily because he felt like him and dylan were best friends, and had especially gotten closer in the months prior. (p. 277). "They believe that what they call the "toxic culture" of the school the worship of jocks and the tolerance of bullying is the primary force that set Dylan off. After the killing: How parents of attackers cope. Susan insists, "I haven't done anything for which I need forgiveness." I kind of admire that. How can that not bother you? Tom seemed to view Dylan as his best friend/soulmate, at least according to what Sue has told us. Dang, I'm unemployed and I wanted to watch today's Oprah about Columbine. Most of you posters here are complete idiots and voiceofthenight is the biggest moron of them all. It Always seems like he didn't give a damn about them, in his writings and in the Basement Tapes. "I wonder if there was any homosex between those two.". The testimony people point out of a co-worker stating Dylan didnt get on with his father is unreliable as he couldve been having a teenage moan or joining in one time right up to regular bitterly disparaging remarks and reasons why. armed with one 10-shot hi-point model 995 carbine rifle, one intratec ab-10 (tec-9) pistol, two savage 12-gauge shotguns, and as many as . That's the first thing. Real estate records indicate they bought their 10-acre plot in 1990 for $65,000. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The couple said they felt under siege after the shooting and never had a chance to grieve for their son. So we're back to Pavlov and Skinner. Psychiatry has long attacked outsiders of all kinds, including gays, while not saying a word about society. ". (They said no.) German-American restaurant owner: "You vill not be a mass murderer!" By the time of the shooting, facing his intense feelings of alienation, she says his journals show the only emotions Dylan could connect to were anger and hopelessness. My mom and I have always thought that my brother is one "snap" away from ending up hurting someone and/or in jail. What kind of parent lets their kid have a swastika prominently displayed in their room (as just one of many, many signs that their offspring had problems)? Ridiculous. I certainly understand how they feel. Hers was a love as dark and true, as embracing and self-abnegating, as Cordelia's. On April 20, 1999, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, seniors at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., placed . I have cousins who did shit like this - what was I supposed to do, call the cops and tell them to search their bedrooms because they might be crazy? Virginia Tech. ". "American Tragedy" premieres at the Boston Film Festival on Thursday at 7 p.m. Cullen, who covered the story for the former Rocky Mountain News, seems to take the view that the Harrises were willfully ignorant of their son's personality (and Major Wayne Harris honestly seems like a bit of a tyrant), and the Klebolds were just clueless. Great job! For a couple reasons. They often have an interest in guns and weapons, with easy access to firearms, and have often repeatedly made clear their violent intentions to others (usually peers). Describes how eric harris and dylan klebold approach columbine high school, in jefferson county, colorado. Now, she spends her time advocating for suicide prevention and mental health services. psycho school, nasty students, bullshit teachers, ignorant parents, hormones, bullying, rage. What a twat. Sue would later find out through his journals though that by sophomore year he was battling depression and suicidal thoughts. I don't really know what to say about the parents. I do find it odd that you'd characterise your 17 year old son as your 'best friend' anyway, you're his father. These kids were calculating, smart and intent on destruction. I don't know if the Klebolds had any inkling at all, but I really don't get the Harrises. He started getting in trouble, and complained of how certain groups of kids were ruthless bullies, yet the school did nothing to stop them. A place to discuss the massacre that took place at Columbine High School in Littleton, CO on April 20th, 1999. She hyped it up as a must see and an insight to what really happened. Adam killed 20 children and 6 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary. By his junior and senior years, Dylans parents knew something was wrong. 04-20-1999 Died. OSHKOSH, Wis. (WBAY) - A special event was held in Oshkosh Tuesday afternoon, where the mother Dylan Klebold, one of the two gunmen responsible for the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado . Not only had Dylan experienced bullying in school, his school fit some of the factors that meant it was most at risk for a shooting by ignoring certain behaviors and otherwise unevenly enforcing the rules. GOLDEN, Colo. (AP) _ Less than three months before his deadly rampage at Columbine High School, Dylan Klebold was described by a probation officer as intelligent and capable of making any dream happen, according to juvenile records made public Friday. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. I found this thred on accident and had to comment. The problem, Cullen concludes, was that there is almost nothing that can be done to help psychopaths. Sue Klebold decided to speak up now because she wants to tell other parents the signs she missed and what she would do differently. Eric says if either the clerk or his father had asked just one question, "we would have been fucked.". After sitting and waiting for 13 hours, I just needed to get home. I wanted a contribution to help us understand why it happened, so that it would never happen again. ", [quote]Eric: "Morris, Nate, if you guys live, I want you guys to have whatever you want from my room and the computer room.". Maybe he needs to go home. Although in their rantings, they seemed to have special hatred for fags, and various other epithets for minorities that I don't even like to write, let alone speak. His lower half can't be seen. My parents didn't know anything I did, didn't care,and were happy if I stayed invisible. Join date : 2014-02-11. . The prom was the standard affair. And then later on, how was he able to conceal his mental state so successfully? No one could control him. And then later on, how was he able to conceal his mental state so successfully? Dylan Klebold had been accepted by the University of Arizona and planned to attend this fall. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris had openly admired Adolf Hitler. But she came to realize the truth was far more troubling. Sue Klebold. The perpetrator often has faced peer or social rejection, endured bullying, has anger about the bullying, and lacks the social or coping skills to deal with these issues. He lays bare the callous brutality of mastermind Eric Harris and the quavering, suicidal Dylan Klebold, who went to the prom three days earlier and obsessed about love in his journal. Harris was born in Wichita, Kansas, but moved around frequently as a child due to his father's occupation in the United States Air Force, while Klebold was born and raised near Columbine. Dylan's mother, Sue Klebold, confirmed to radio host Terry Gross on "Fresh Air" Tuesday that she is Jewish, and her now ex-husband, Dylan Klebold's father, is Lutheran, and said her son . Eric, on the other hand, was a psychopath, Cullen concludes, and he spends 400 pages convincingly making his case. And psychiatrists, rather dubious "doctors" push drugs. Hail Reb &VoDka!!!!!!!!! In my defense, R78, everyone knew I wrote the best hand. Planning? He and his partner Dylan Klebold were responsible for the Columbine High School massacre (1999). This girl went on screaming for full minutes at a time - nobody came out of the house and told her to be quiet. Is that correct? His father, who had been in the military, was strict with Eric, and actions in that house had consequences. I hated her for a few years but its not a clear depiction of the totality of our relationship. 5 feet 6.5 inches tall, 135-140 pounds. He still was the boy his parents joked seemed to be on autopilot (p. 65), but Sue notes that this may have been particularly dangerous in his case. Firstly, like everyone else he didn't pick up on his mental health nor was Dylan apparently showing it to his 'best friend.'. Good thing I did because Dylan hasn't exactly risen to a level of responsibility in my absence. Teachers did nothing. New York: Crown. I think we can value Sue's words more than Dylan's words in this one. We are not there yet. crap. And while his father was the epitome of the military asshole, having to deal with him only served to hone Eric's skills in fooling people. These are all great examples of Tom's relationship with Dylan. Age : 36. Can you imagine having one of those monsters as your brother? But even if you work with them to avoid their *own* pain, that's a start. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. I'm not saying that there's no guilt, no responsibility, because no matter how our brains are wired, we're all creatures of free will and able to make moral choices, but to lay everything at the feet of society, or the parents, or the school, is way, way too simple. Funny how things cycle. Looking back on the textbooks suggested traits of school shooters, weve already seen above how Dylan does actually map onto many of them. No matter how angry they were they wouldn't be able to kill that many without those weapons. however, in her book, sue shared a diary entry she wrote of an incident in the months before the massacre: 1/11/99 This long, hard day is over. -- b. Here, let me get your coats for you. "Susan said, came when somebody said, "I forgive you for what you've done." I remember Oprah had teachers and students from Columbine on her show within a month of the event. Though posthumous diagnosis isnt possible, that Dylan was seriously depressed is not up for debate (p. 160), and his behaviors might have also fit the criteria for other diagnoses such as avoidant personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, and/or borderline personality disorder. What happened to them? As the mother of Columbine High School shooter Dylan Klebold prepares to speak out in her first interview since the gruesome 1999 shooting massacre, a survivor of the attacks has . "This was murder," he said. i think he was also quoted saying that he had lost his best friend. February 12, 2016 11:56am. "He said, 'One of the boys my son shot said Dylan was a nice kid,' " Berg says. The glaring one that Americans seem unable to see is the huge amount of available weapons in the US. Betty Shoels, Isaiah's aunt, said that "her 18-year-old nephew was a fun-loving athlete who was always smiling, despite feeling out of place as one of the school's few African-American students." . Victim's parents reactThe Klebolds comments was criticized late Saturday by some of the victims parents. Dylan, Cullen writes, was depressed. Reviews: 81% of readers found this page helpful, Address: Suite 369 9754 Roberts Pines, West Benitaburgh, NM 69180-7958, Hobby: Worldbuilding, Shopping, Quilting, Cooking, Homebrewing, Leather crafting, Pet. Agreed that Klebold's parents seem like total cunts, delusional in their whiny victim mentality. Without one factor (their brains) or the other (the guns), this wouldn't have happened the way it did, but I don't see the point of dismissing/elevating one over the other. Dylan adds that they can have his things as well. While in class we have made abundantly clear that most people with mental health issues are non-violent, Dylans depression and suicidality fits the school shooter pattern. Susan Francis Klebold ( ne Yassenoff; born March 25, 1949) is an American author and activist. Eric: "Susan, sorry. Dylan was behaving differently, getting in more trouble, not always acting like himself. Dylan was a depressed teenager with many mental issues. Growing up in Ohio, she had a mixed religious upbringing with her Christian mother and Jewish father. To be clear, I'm sure the Klebold's obviously loved their children, but reading Dylan's writings, there was more going on in that home that Sue would say today. It would be satisfying to blame the parents. Press J to jump to the feed. If that;s the case, why did he have so many friends? ERIC AND DYLAN 4 LIFE! we only know so much and there have probably been incidents we dont know about. Another migrant here from the other Columbine thread who's reading Cullen's book--. Asking how points the way forward, and shows us what we must do. "In my opinion, what went on in their home led to Columbine.". . Eric Harris was a garden variety psychopath, nothing very interesting about him. His dad followed him around with a camcorder, capturing every move. . That doesn't mean that it's always successful. Klebold was depressed and fell under Harris's influence. He was fiercely independent, insisting his mother teach him how to bathe himself at the age of 5 or 6, and how to do his own laundry at age 10. As a . I read a book about young doctors and they were discussing whether you can teach compassion. A Mothers Reckoning: Living in the Aftermath of Tragedy. Any pix of the monster creators? of course, tom has never come out and publicly spoken the way sue has; from my personal observation he seems to be a little more torn up about it than she. I don't believe I've said anything about gun control, of which this country has far too little of. Tom seemed in complete denial. "I just don't know how something that is so basic as how the brain works is something that can be treated with therapy.". Outside Dylans journals, most of the information Sue got about Dylans frame of mind for the shootings came from a series of videotapes he and Eric had secretly made together. Everyone ones there to be one systemic cause, one thing that failed, to point to and say "there, that's why this happened." Sociopaths are born, but people who remain sociopaths as they age: either missed puberty; or had bad parents. I think maybe his outlook grew worse over time. . Im looking for possible warning signs of trouble between these two individuals and their father-son relationship. On a calendar entry dated the day of the attack, April 20, the time 11:10 is written across the top an approximate reference to when Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold pulled out their weapons . 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This is my story | Sue Klebold, (Video) Sue Klebold: My life as the mother of a Columbine killer (EXCLUSIVE) - BBC Newsnight, (Video) Chris Morris friend of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, (Video) COLUMBINE SHOOTER: DYLAN KLEBOLD'S MOTHER GIVES FIRST TV INTERVIEW ! Several phone callers to the Jewish News have . Attacks seem planned in advance, with the shooter expecting to be killed or planning to commit suicide in conjunction with the attack.